GS : Going into '74. You were
a part of the Uruguay series.
AA : "Yes two games. A 0-0 draw
in Melbourne and a 2-0 win in Sydney.
GS : That was the first time the
world really stood up and took notice that the Socceroos were a world class
team.
AA : "Australia had a couple
of decent results against visiting overseas teams but that was possibly
one of the biggest (results) up to that point when we beat Uruguay in Sydney
2-0. If I remember rightly there was probably two other scores that stand
out in my mind. Beating Greece in '69, that was the first time that we
beat a European side, and then in '70 beating Greece in Greece 3-1. So
there were two, but of course, there was Uruguay because they had won the
world cup twice. That was something special."
GS : Do you remember the infamous
Ray Baartz incident, when he was karate chopped by a Uruguayan player?
AA : "Oh yeah very much
so. I was taking a corner kick at the time and that's when it happened.
I went to take a corner from the right wing and Baartzy like everybody
else was in the box waiting for the corner to be taken and the guy just
karate chopped him from behind. I didn't end up taking the corner kick
because everything just stopped.
Baartzy went down and the game
was held up for five, seven, eight minutes, I don't know. Oh geez, I remember
like it was yesterday."
GS : Did the Australian players
step in and start anything at that stage.
AA : "To be quite fair I really
didn't see it because I had my back to it going out to take a corner kick,
and next minute I heard the roar of the crowd and I thought, what the hell
is going on? And as I turned around I believe Baartzy was hit and he was
on the ground and of course a few players that were nearby saw the whole
incident and they all rushed in and there was a bit of a scuffle, but it's
up to the referee."
GS : It's hard to imagine something
so blatant happening on a football field during an international friendly.
AA : "Yeah exactly! Baartzy
went home and apparantly at two in the morning he was totally paralysed.
He was rushed to hospital and everybody thought, well, actually, we were
convinced and he was too, he'll be paralysed for life."
GS : That incident must have
affected the Australian camp as Ray Baartz was one of the regular starters
in the Socceroos side.
AA : "Well not only that he
was one of the better players. He was one of the oldest players, not in
terms of age, but he was with the team right from the word go, like most
of us. It was a tremendous blow to the team."
GS : The side then left Australia
for Germany via Switzerland.
AA : "Yes, three games
in Switzerland. First of all we played, on the way, in places like Jakarta
and Hong Kong. We ended up in Tel Aviv in Israel for ten days training
camp.
We played against Israel, but
it was mainly used as a training camp. Our preperation I think was only
the one full international, and from there we went to Switzerland again
for another ten days to two weeks as part of our buildup. We played three
games in Switzerland all against first division clubs Young Boys, Neuchetal
and a third team, three (Swiss first division) club sides. And from there
we went on to Germany."
GS : It must have been a bit
exciting for a team of part timers from downunder.
AA : "Yeah it was one
of those teams that probably only comes along once in a blue moon
that not only has good players, but our friendship was just tremendous.
It was just like a family. And of course our confidence was growing too."
GS : Was Rale Rasic playing a
reasonably attacking game or more a defensive game at that stage.
AA : "I think he was
a bit cautious and I can understand that. In the next couple of weeks you'd
be facing teams like East Germany, West Germany and Chile. I mean to ever
think that Australia would play against West Germany, the best team in
the world (with) Beckenbauers and Mullers. So he had to be cautious. In
that particular tournament. Haiti I think made it in the '74 World Cup,
Haiti and another team Zaire from the south of Africa they were copping
eight and nine nils. It sounds silly but to lose only three nil against
West Germany again would have to go down as one of the greatest results
ever."
GS : And nil nil against Chile
was a good result too.
AA : "Yeah thats right!
We didn't score in three games but we got a point which I suppose is something,
and we played against three extremely bloody good teams. When you think
East Germany were the only team to beat West Germany in the tournament
one nil so you actually played against the world champions and you played
against the team who beat the world champions. Great results.
GS : What happened after the
World Cup?
AA : "I called it quits. From
'67 right up to '74 you're looking at nearly eight years non-stop and the
family is starting to grow so I personally thought that maybe this is the
ultimate. You've been to the World Cup, another four years who knows what?
Brian Green came out from England (to be Socceroo coach) and saw me at
a game at Wentworth Park between St George at Hakoah. I'll never forget
that. I had a reasonably good game and he in fact approached me and said,
"We've got two games coming up against New Zealand later that month, would
you be available?".
Anyway we sat down and talked
about it, what my chances are, what my possibilities are, and why he wanted
me back. He said he was keen and by this time I suppose I was getting itchy
feet again and I really wanted to play. I didn't go to Auckland for the
first game but I played the second game in Melbourne which we won 3-1."
GS : And you were included in
the world tour.
AA : " No, then Brian
Green got the bullet after that and Jimmy Shoulder came along. Shoulder
was only a very, very young chap at the time. I think he was only twenty-nine
(or) thirty. And by this time people like Jimmy Rooney, myself, Peter Wilson
were two or three years older than Jimmy. Up to that point he had never
had a club side. He was working at the AIS in Canberra. Eric Worthington
(the director of coaching for the ASF) actually got Jimmy the job. That's
either very late in '75 or early '76. That's when we went on the world
tour in '76. We went to England with Jimmy Shoulder.
GS : What was that tour like
to be on.
AA : "Well, every trip was brilliant,
lets face it. Up to that point I'd never played in England before and we
played two games in England. We went to Israel, we went to all the Asian
countries so it was memorable."
GS : You'd never had a desire
to try your luck in England up to that point?
AA : "Well, back in those
days it was unheard of. I think Ray Baartz was the only one who went to
Manchester United as a young boy, he had couple of years trial there. Johnny
Warren went to a team called Stockport who were in the third division in
England but it was just unheard of, not like nowadays.
In fact nobody really played
apart from Joe Marston who was before our days.
Apparantly he went overseas and
even played in the F.A. Cup. But he was the only one, it was just unheard
of. Of course as much as you wanted to no other (overseas) club never even
considered looking at an Australian player.
We were a laughing stock, we
have to be honest about this. These (current) guys have got the Joeys,
the Young Socceroos, the Olympic team.
I had the opportunity back in
'75 when Manchester United came out here. Tommy Dockerty invited to me
to play for United as a guest player against Queensland. But I was already
twenty-eight by that time and he said as much as I'd like to sign you and
he wanted to but he said you're too old. You're twenty-eight we're not
going to sign a twenty-eight year old guy.
GS : Do you regret that at all.
AA : "Of course you do. From
the day I was born I was a Man U supporter and for him to invite me to
play for United against Queensland in Brisbane was the only time an Australian
player has appeared as a guest player for a team like Man United or any
overseas team. So that was probably my greatest achievement on the personal
side.
We were talking about '74 but
that was as a squad. On a personal level that (Man U) would be my greatest
memory."
GS : And that was in........
AA : "In '75. They came
out here to play. I think they played about six games, played three against
Australia and they played the usual Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland
and so forth. I think they played four or five interstate games as well."
GS : Did you get to keep the
jumper and the gear after the game.
AA : "Oh yeah. He gave
me the whole kit which again was a tremendous gesture. Socks and shirts
and badges and bags. They gave me everything and really treated me nicely.
Great memory."
GS : You've kept a lot of stuff.
AA : "Well that's one
thing I have kept over the years but by the same token I have given a lot
away. I've got my very first shirt and I've got a couple of jerseys from
the '74 World Cup. I've got the ones we swapped against Germany, I've still
got a few of those shirts.
GS : You were a part of the infamous
"mudbath" 1970 grand final against Yugal.
AA : "Yep 4-0."
GS : Leo Baumgartner coached
Yugal. It was one of greatest coaching triumphs.
AA : "Yeah, and the week before
we beat them 4-0 to knock Hakoah out of the grand final. We deliberately
played Hakoah out of the grand final because we were winning 4-0 after
twenty minutes and Frank Arok who was coaching St George at the time virtually
told us not to score any more goals. Because had we scored one more it
would have put Hakoah back into the grand final and Hakoah for some reason
we could never beat. So by keeping it down to four which meant that we
played Yugal into the grand final on goal difference and they bloody beat
us 4-0 would you believe (laughing). Talk about rain! That game should
never have been played."
GS : Tony Boskovic was the referee
and everyone except him thought it should have been called off.
AA : "I've got pictures of it!
I've still got black and white shots of that game and all you could see
is water. You could not kick the ball five yards. You had to lift the ball."
GS : The St George supporters
who went out that day say it was one of the worst days in their life to
see the side get beaten under those circumstances.
AA : "One of the stories going
around was apparantly Tony Boskovic was flying out the next day. He'd been
invited to referee a few games in Asia, in some Asian tournament.
So he thought if the game was
called off on Sunday the game would have to be either replayed on a Wednesday
or the following Sunday and he would have been in Asia and he wanted to
referee the grand final. Whether it's true or not I don't know, but there
you go."
GS : Do you remember your last
game for the Socceroos.
AA : "Yes I certainly do. Do
I ever. Against Iran in Teheran. In the '77 qualifiers. I knew that was
it. By this time I am like thirty-one, I knew this was the end of the road
for me (as a Socceroo)."
GS : You were still playing club
football?
AA : "Oh yeah, I was playing
for Sydney Croatia at the time. I left St George and went there in '77
'78 and '79 three years."
GS : It must have been hard leaving
St George after all those years.
AA : "Very hard. It was just
a personal thing. My contract was up in '76 and that was the last year
of the original state league. The national league was starting up in '77.
Manfred Schaefer was the coach at the time at St George and I went into
see him about my contract. I couldn't come to an agreement. It was basically
as simple as that after eight years, eight wonderful years.
You know, that's the highlight
of my soccer life, I had a brilliant eight years at St George. Unfortunately
I was thirty one at the time and I had to think about myself for a change,
my family was growing up plus national league was starting up. It was more
demanding, more travelling, more this, more that, but as far as Manfred
could see there was no more money for me. We couldn't come to terms and
Croatia came along and offered me more money and so I went to Croatia."
GS : And how did you find your
time at Croatia.
AA : "Brilliant. Unfortunately
we were in state league, Croatia at that stage didn't go into the NSL but
it was tremendous. Crowds, we used to average 8 to 10,000 people in 77'
78'. I was there for three years '77 78' and '79. In the three years that
I was there we won the minor premiership, we won one grand final, we lost
another one and we bombed out in the third one. So we had a very good three
years and financially it was very good. Back in those days you were looking
at $5,000 being good money.
These guys are earning hundreds
of thousands now, but who cares about money?
We never played for money always
for the love of it. I can just imagine these guys coming back from England
earning two hundred thousand or half a million. I wish I was born twenty
years later."
GS : So you weren't paid a great
deal for the Socceroos.
AA : "We got five (thousand)
for the whole World Cup in '74. That's all the games, all the qualifiers,
which in total was about thirteen games plus the World Cup included.
Five thousand for the whole
lot minus tax so we ended up getting about four."
GS : But they supplied all your
gear for that.
AA : "Oh yeah, Adidas did. Adidas
was like a Nike - by far the biggest sporting company, plus the fact that
it was in Germany they sponsored nearly all the teams. Everything was provided
by Adidas of course. Not by anybody else (and not by) the Australian federation
or anybody. Adidas purely sponsored ninety percent of the teams in the
'74 World Cup."
GS : So you got five grand and
a lot of memories.
AA : "Yeah, well, more memories.
Like Johnny Warren's Christmas card this year said a lot of memories but
no money (laughing). Him and I keep in touch and we always have a good
laugh about it and good old chats about times but those were his exact
words. A lot of memories but no money (laughing)."
GS : From the '74 team, Johnny
Warren has been the only player to have a long term career in the media.
Guys like Ray Richards and Adrian Alston on television only occasionally
and the others like yourself, we don't hear much about you.
AA : "Well I used to do quite
a few on SBS, same thing with Les Murray. I moved here in '89, so for the
'86 World Cup I did quite a bit there with Johnny Warren and Les Murray.
A few guys occassionally, like
now, call in for bits and pieces. But like Adrian Alston, you might see
him around World Cup time or something as important as the Iran match,
but now you won't see him on television for another three or four years.
It's just the way it works. That's the pattern."
GS : It doesn't bother you too
much.
AA : "Not anymore."
GS : I thought that being Australia's
greatest ever soccer team that there would be more of a profile for all
twenty two of you.
AA : I know what you're getting
at but unfortunately it never worked that way. You're right, because even
the ASF to my knowledge has never offered a particular position to a player.
I mean, would you like to be involved in the New South Wales or Australian
soccer federation as a representative or a secretary or a PR man?"
GS : Or even an ambassador.
AA : "Nope nothing what so ever."
GS : Its a tragedy because I
personally feel that your talents as individuals and as a team haven't
been utlilised.
AA : "And to be honest with
you they have killed a lot of people that way. I now, having been in Coffs
for nine years and you might not be able to tell, have lost a hell of a
lot of interest for the game. It will always be with me, the memories and
all, but soccer to me now is soccer. It's past, it's gone, it's not something
that I live for like I used to.
I could talk to you for forty
minutes on this topic, why there is so much politics in the game and what
I've seen and what I've heard. I have just had enough. There is a lot of
politics in the game unfortunately that spoils the game right from junior
level up to senior level."
GS : Are you talking about the
ethnic side of the game.
AA : "That might come into it
too. And of course there's a lot of bickering and in my opinion the game
never took the right direction. There was too much politics involved in
the game. Back in '74 they said "Right, from now on soccer is going to
kick on" and it just died. It just died for the next ten years until something
else came along. We had a lot of interest shown and a lot of publicity
for the first time, good coverage and certain people, I am not going to
name names, but certain people let it all fade away again with politics
and bickering. Somebody didn't like somebody or somebody else instead of
thinking about the game itself. And there was always a lot of personal
conflicts, a lot of personal interests that played in front of more important
issues.
I found that at club levels
too. If you're a wealthy guy and you didn't know anything about the game
it didn't matter, you were the president. Only because you had the money,
not because you were interested in the game or you had some knowledge of
the game or you had passion for the game. It was because you were well
off, and that to me is not the way. I can say that after twenty years.
My last years at St George,
I went back as Frank's (Arok) assistant at St George in '88 and '89 so
I have been through quite a few clubs and I have, unfortunately, seen the
way it's run and you're right, with the ethnic problems too."
GS : You were player coach at
Croatia and you finished there in....?
AA : "'79 as a player-coach."
GS : And then where did you go
from there.
AA : "Melita. I gave away playing
and by this time I was thirty-three. I thought I'd had enough and I just
wanted to concentrate on coaching rather than playing-coaching."
GS : Did you have a lot of success
as a coach.
AA : "Well, I was at Croatia
for three years and player coach for the last two years '78 and '79. We
won the minor premiership in both those years. Then I went to Melita in
'80 which was my first year as just a coach, not a player. We won the minor
premiership (but) we lost the grand final. So that was three out of three
if you like. And from there I was offered a full time job at a little club
called Riverwood you might remember in the state league. That was a case
of a lot of things coming together at the time. I was working for a sports
store in Liverpool with this guy Steven Smith (the cricketer) and that
particular store folded. The company (All Round Sports) folded completely
so I lost my job like he (Steve Smith) did and everybody else did.
And just at that time, honestly,
I think it might have even been that same week at the end of the '80 season
at Melita. I mean, brilliant. We won the league, we won the grand final,
everything was going well, and a brilliant little club, absolutely brilliant
club to work for. Nice people, good facilities and I had no intention of
leaving. But Riverwood came along, they used to be called Arncliffe Scots
but it was the year they changed to Riverwood, and they offered me a full
time job.
I couldn't believe it. I was
the only full time coach in the state league back in those days (laughing).
How could you knock it back? So I took that on for two years as coach.
The first year we finished seventh
I think and the second we finished runners up to Croatia. In fact I think
that was their (Croatia) last year in state league before they went up
into the NSL. So we finished second to them on goal difference. I left
them and was offered a job in Canberra in '83 in the national league with
Canberra City."
GS : Did you have much success
down there.
AA : "I was only there for one
year. They offered me a two year contract but I didn't take it because
I still had a house and family in Sydney. I moved to Canberra by myself
purely to take on this full time coaching job. But I couldn't move my family,
my house and so forth. So I said I'll see what happens after one year.
I think we ended up finishing seventh on the table and there was fourteen
teams in the NSL. It was quite enjoyable, a fairly successful year. They
offered me a two year contract. Then it was a case of what do I do? Do
I sell up and move to Canberra or what? And that was the year that Croatia
came back into the NSL, '84 was going to be their first year in the NSL.
So they rang me up while I was still in Canberra and asked would I be interested
in taking Croatia again?
So I thought, what an opportunity,
I can come back to Sydney and continue full time coaching. I wouldn't have
to sell or move.
So a lot of things happened
and I came back and took on Croatia in '84. And they sacked me (laughing).
Typical! Halfway through the season we lost a few games on the trot and
bang! Typical soccer. I said to them at the start of the season that here
we are playing in the NSL. We're going to be playing against teams like
St George, Hakoah and APIA who are really established and brilliant teams
and they have already been in the NSL since 1976, eight years in the NSL.
You step up from state league into it. (They said) Croatia must finish
up the top. I said you're crazy or what?"
GS : Too high an expectation.
AA : "I said this will take
three or four years to catch up to these clubs. I virtually took on that
team with a pure state league squad with unknown players. Don't get me
wrong, they were good players, but they were just like Barnsley in the
premier league. First year, poor Barnsley, bottom of the table. Lucky if
you survive. If you don't get relegated you're doing well. Next year you
do a little bit better. So I said to them it will take time and they said
we cannot wait this long, what about our supporters? And I said well, stuff
you, let the supporters do the job if that's your attitude.
But that's soccer of course.
Who's to go first? It' s always the coach isn't it? So I left and then
I started to be a bit (pause), I don't know. It's not because I got the
bullet, don't get me wrong, it's part of the game. But when you give up
playing it's never the same.
Once you stop playing, believe
me it's not the same. Your passion goes. Coaching is alright but its not
like being a player.
I started to be a bit sceptical
about the game (and) the people running the clubs. Because when you are
a player you don't give a stuff what the committee says or what they do
or what they think (because) you're playing. But when you're involved as
a coach you go to these meetings, committee meetings and some of the shit
(pause)..
Anyway, I don't want to bore
you. That's what happened and then I thought, that's it, I want a break
from soccer for a full year completely. That's when I started working for
AMP as a rep selling life insurance. Again, Mike Johnson got me the job
there and I thought I'm not going to do anything for a full year.
And then in '85 Rockdale Illinden
rang me up and asked would I coach the team?
So I ended up going there. Probably
one of the silliest mistakes, but again I wanted to do it. By this time
I had a year off and I was starting to....."
GS : Get itchy feet?
AA : "Yeah, itchy feet and I
just wanted to be involved and I went along to their little practice ground
out at Rockdale. So I was there and one thing led to another and Frank
Arok got in touch with me and said "How would you like to come back to
St George?"
And magic, back to my love.
So in '87 and '88 I was back at St George assisting Frank in the national
league."
GS : And from there St George
went out of the National League.
AA : Well, I left at the end
of '88."
GS : And then you moved to Coffs
Harbour.
AA : "That's right. I went to
see Frank at the end of the year and I said we'd decided to move up north
and I was leaving.
GS : And you're enjoying your
soccer retirement up there?
AA : "I love it. The lifestyle
is absolutely perfect. It's what we like and I'm now involved in things
like golf. I'm been a bloody golf fanatic for the last four years. When
you're working and playing soccer, training three or four nights per week
plus every weekend you've got no time for anything else. So I thought once
I come up here the lifestyle is entirely different. But the first year
I was up here would you believe I ended up playing soccer for a little
club called Sawtell up here."
GS : You actually played?
AA : "I actually played! It
was nine years ago so I would have been forty-two. The reason for that
is certain guys found out that I was moving up here. Leo Baumgartner was
already here for a full year before I moved up."
GS : Is he still coaching up
there"
AA : " No, but he was. He actually
coached a club for two years, North Coffs, and then he was director of
coaching up here for about three years and last year he just packed it
up completely. Again, politics. Certain guys didn't want him in the job."
GS : I can't imagine that because
he was arguably one of our best imported players, if not the best.
AA : "I'm glad you said that
because it took me all this time to tell him. I've known him for donkeys
(years) and we've become very good friends, and it took me that long to
tell him. When I was a kid growing up he was my idol and he couldn't believe
it. I told him he had no idea, when I was thirteen (or) fourteen, he played
for New South Wales while I was still living in Melbourne being a little
ballboy and when I heard that Leo Baumgartner was coming I couldn't sleep
for two nights. Things like that and he's a mate of mine! Incredible! If
you had to ask me who was the best player to play in this country, or import
if you like, it's Leo. I have seen
him play and he was unbelievable."
GS : They used to call him Sabrina
because he was like a ballerina with the ball.
AA : "Yeah Sabrina, that's right.
Unbelievable, the little professor. I've got his book too, called the Little
Professor."
GS : Has he signed it for you?
AA : "Oh yeah, he did of course.
He wouldn't be more than seven minutes in the car from my place to his
place. So I see quite a bit of him and his wife. We've been there for a
barbeque, they come to our place occassionally and we get on real well."
GS : So who would have been the
best player you played with? You can pick a few.
AA : "To play with I'd have
to mention Johnny Warren of course. For a lot of reasons.
His leadership of course, his
skills and ability, but more so his leadership and determination. An example
to all of us as a player, I mean he was just a 110% player.
So it's a combination of a number
of things.
Another guy would be Doug Utjesenovic,
the right fullback (for St George and Australia) because we had a brilliant
understanding and he possessed so much skill. It's a pity that all his
life he was a right fullback, which I thought was probably the wrong position
for him. He just had so much skill that he would have been a better player,
say, playing as a midfielder. Very creative, very skilful, read the game
perfectly and we had a brilliant understanding, so I enjoyed playing with
him more than anybody else. Those two would have to stand out in my mind,
and Adrian Alston up front. Probably those three I would have to mention."
GS : What about the hardest defender.
AA : "Stan Ackerley without
a doubt, the bastard (laughing). I'll never forget when I was playing in
Melbourne as a young lad of sixteen or seventeen he played for a club called
Slavia. I'll never forget the first game, I actually played against him.
I didn't even know who the hell he was. He said to me even before the game
kicked off when we were lining up, he just looked at me, he was left fullback
and I was right wing and a skinny little boy at seventeen year old. He
said these exact words - "I am gonna' break your leg before this day is
out". Just then I sh*t myself but that was a put-off of course, but he
was by far the hardest defender I've faced. But they are all hard, let's
face it. As a forward you find every defender hard."
GS : Coaches - Frank Arok the
best you have played under?
AA : "Yes, by far."
GS : Even better than Rale Rasic?
I guess it's like comparing chalk and cheese...
AA : "I wouldn't say
by a mile, but Frank and Rale, those two in particular. I've had quite
a few over the years but yeah, those two would have to stand out more than
anybody else."
GS : Do you have any regrets
on your career at all.
AA : "Oh no, not at all. I am
very, very grateful and very lucky at the same time.
You know how you hear players
saying "Ever since I was a kid I dreamed of playing for Australia"? To
me, that's such bullsh*t. Now again that might surprise you. When I started
playing soccer I only thought about the next Saturday's game. If you get
selected to play for your club side at first grade level or New South Wales
or Victoria it's an extra added bonus. You're not going to think about
it from the age of ten.
I never thought I'd play for
Australia. That was never my ambition. My ambition was to be a good player,
end of story. If you were good enough or lucky enough to get picked it
was unbelievable, but I never thought at the age of ten one day I'd like
to play for Australia. And I honestly don't think anybody could. It sounds
silly and a lot of people sort of look at me and say that's not right.
But people will always say that once they've made it. Have you noticed
that? It's always when a guy makes the Australian team in any sport he
says, "Oh, I had a dream that one day I might like to play for Australia".
But you never hear a guy who never made it say, "Geez, one day I want to
play for Australia. That's what fascinates me. I just think it's not possible.
I think if you love the game and you're good enough and you work hard enough
you'll get the benefits out of it. You'll play for Australia, but you can't
actually dream about it. I just don't believe it's possible.
Even Bobby Charlton said the
same thing! He said, "I was dead lucky to have been picked for England".
All he wanted to do was play for Man United and he said, "All of a sudden
I got picked for England, I don't know whether I deserved it or not". Now
fancy him saying that! And he's the only guy I've ever heard that said
exactly what I always thought."
Not frightened to call a spade a shovel, the talented right sided forward who once thrilled crowds on the pitches of Australia now drives golf balls on the north coast of New South Wales. Now firmly retired from the game, Atti adamantly maintains that's the way he plans to stay. An outstanding person both on and off the field, the countless memories he gave all Autralian soccer supporters will be fondly remembered for many years to come.
Studs Up would like to warmly thank not only Greg Stock but also Kylie Tomislav and John Punshon for assistance in compiling this article.